NAF: "I don't understand how people can blame Liquid [...]"

Hugo “TheSwedishJoker” Nilsson Meier:  So, I'd like to start with the G2 game yesterday. It went down to the wire, and officials are obviously different from practice. How was it to play your first official with the new roster and getting so close to a team like G2?

Keith “NAF” Markovic: It feels really good to start off strong and start off with a win. Before coming to this event, we were able to have about a week and a half of practice. And within that practice and that bootcamp that we had, it was more about getting to know more about Robert "Patsi" Isyanov and Aleks "Rainwaker" Petrov - how they like to play, how they like to communicate, just see what's most comfortable with them.

The good thing about Robert [Patsi] and his position is that he communicates a lot and he stays in the game, and he has a lot of good ideas. We always thought he was a really good player, especially when we played them versus Spirit. Spirit was always a tough team for us to play against.

So, we knew Patsi was a good player and a good pickup for us. And with our team, once he got into our team, we could realize his comms and the way he likes to play in his system that he's comfortable with. It really suits our playstyle and also suits it really well for Mareks "YEKINDAR" Gaļinskis as well. To have these two types of aggressive players that are somewhat different and have their own ways of playing. And then Rainwaker is more of a passive player like me, and his comms are a little bit lower, but I think he maybe just has more of a shy personality. But overall, he's really smart when we're playing in scrims. He was really intelligent within his clutch scenarios, so that's really important as a player that plays more of the passive lurk positions. I think we're always super confident if he's ever in a clutch scenario, he can clutch out the round. So both the pickups are both really nice, so we're happy with that.

But yeah, speaking more about the tournament [...] playing against G2. We had our first game on Ancient, a map that we felt more comfortable on in our scrims and our practices. We were able to kind of watch a little bit of G2. They're a team that didn't make any changes in terms of their roster. We had maybe somewhat to go off of, and we felt like they did play somewhat the same as they played before. We're just comfortable playing against them.

And then going into Mirage, it was more back and forth. We won some clutches, they won some clutches. But in the end, they had just the better reads. And they were able to close out the map and kind of steal it from us a little bit, somewhat. But yeah, I think it was pretty even, that game.

And then going into Vertigo, I guess you could say maybe that was the game they were supposed to win, and Mirage was the game that we were supposed to win. We just had good reads, we stayed in it all the way until the very end. Liquid is a team people doubt the resilience, especially in the past with all the choking and losing games when we should be winning them. So I think with these new players and being maybe majority European with different mentalities, it just helps us to feel more confident in winning games.

TheSwedishJoker: G2 is a notoriously strong team on Nuke. They had that insane streak last year. And I saw that you banned Nuke first. Do you think that until you have figured out your map pool, you will be banning the opponent's strongest maps, just to give yourself a little bit more of an advantage coming into the matchups?

NAF: When we first started, obviously, we have two new players to the team. So we obviously looked at all seven maps to see which one is gonna be the best. We didn't come into our practices and just say, "Hey, we're just gonna instantly ban this map and we have no thought about looking into it." We've definitely looked into Nuke and practiced it and talked about roles and strategies on the map.

We're obviously, right now, just staying day by day, seeing which map we're more comfortable on. And then just like you said, G2's Nuke is definitely one of their strong suits. So, I think it was kind of maybe just more like a no-brainer to just get rid of Nuke and play Vertigo. I think we have players that feel a little bit more, maybe more comfortable on Vertigo. Especially Yekindar when he was playing for VP/Outsiders. He was really good at playing that A ramp position on A, and now we even have Patsi, who's a similar player, and even though I think on Spirit, they enjoyed playing the map as well.

We have good players on that map, and we just felt like, "hey, maybe this is just more suited for our playstyle and our players" and that we should just kind of just take advantage of it and just play it. And as I said, G2's nuke is strong, so we may as well just avoid that and just pick something that's more comfortable.

TheSwedishJoker: You mentioned roles and positions before. Has there been any big changes for you in terms of roles and positions, bringing in Patsi and Rainwaker?

NAF: I mean, in terms of my roles, there are definitely some roles that I've kind of given up for Rainwaker, but it's not necessarily a negative, in my opinion. I always kind of played the really passive lurk roles because I felt like nobody else on the team could really understand how to play them as well as I did. So, I had no issues kind of taking on the second lurk role.

But with the new roles that I play, I think they're more aggressive roles, where you actually have the opportunity to play aggressively and make plays. Whereas in my old roles that Rainwaker is currently playing in some maps, you just need to play really passive and wait for a lot of things to happen in the round before making your play. Now, in some roles, I have decisions to make if I want to play aggressive or if I want to play passive. I think it ultimately, in the end, gives me more freedom in some sense. I can perform in a new way or an older way that I used to play years ago. It's not necessarily a negative that I've given up some roles, but it gives me a little bit more, like a breath of fresh air, a little bit more freedom to perform, I believe. It's kind of nice to take on a new challenge.

And with taking on new challenges comes more things that I would need to do, maybe communicate more and talk about strategies or anything like that. It just comes with more aggressive plays and just more vocal things towards my teammates.

TheSwedishJoker: As you said, you've had one and a half weeks bootcamp for this.  Coming in here, you have approximately two weeks before Cologne. What would you say are the main focus, you know, for the team during this period? Is it communication and the map pool, or do you try and just, you know bond as a team?

NAF: I think it's pretty much literally all of those. We want to get to know each other a little bit more, become more comfortable. And with our team, we all have a good sense of humor; we all get along. So it's good that all of us have that similar type of sense of humor where everybody can laugh, joke, and just feel comfortable with being themselves. Cause that's all we want people to be, to be themselves, be comfortable so that they can perform and be happy.

And obviously, there's communication and all that. That's something we were a little bit scared of in the beginning. I know, for Patsi, English with his accent can be tough. Even for Rainwaker, with his accent can be tough. Compared to maybe some other countries, like Scandinavian countries, sometimes it doesn't sound like those people have accents at times.

So it was mainly like just a bunch of those things, just learning and just doing all those, just learning about each other, learning how people play in-game and out of the game, and then coming into the game for our tournaments and all that, it's just we need to make sure. Here at BLAST, it's like we definitely want to get the most out of everything and learn as much as we can as quick as we can because obviously, there are a lot of events coming up back to back, and luckily with this BLAST format, it's definitely more forgiving. Even if you do lose some games, and so it's nice to have some extra lives, I guess you could say somewhat. 

I know for our expectations, we would obviously love to qualify for the fall final because with making a lot of changes, we lost a lot of our points, so our chances of making the world global final can be a little bit tough. So we definitely need to find our ways to maybe get through this event and qualify, or else it'll be pretty difficult later on to do that, even if we had to go through, like, a showdown.

I think also just a good expectation for us, maybe it's just to make playoffs for [IEM] Cologne at the next event, just to use the practice that we had before and the practice here, playing officials, playing practice in our practice rooms. Just to help us perform better and be ready for Cologne and the Gamers8 event in the future.

TheSwedishJoker: Seaking of expectations, you looked pretty comfortable yesterday.. 70 kills over three maps. Do you think that it raises the expectations on you and the team having such a good showing in the first official, knowing that you played like this against G2, now maybe, you know, raise the expectations that you had before the G2 game.

NAF: It's ultimately how people handle it. I just take it game by game. Maybe it's just because I've been playing in the pro scene for so long. I just treat everything just like game by game. I don't really care what the expectations are from the community or from others. It's just like, I show up, play my game, try my best. Whatever happens, happens. Another game will come soon enough, and that's time for redemption or just time to keep it going, keep it moving.

It depends maybe on other players. Obviously, we have some younger players now with Patsi and Alex [Rainwaker], so I don't know how they would take those things. But for me, I always feel like "whatever, it's no pressure, pressure, just enjoy the game, have fun, and just do your thing".

I understand within our previous lineup, maybe sometimes when we go into tournaments, people rate us as an underdog and all that. And when we get that first win versus a top team and maybe upset them a little bit, I think that put a lot of pressure on some people's shoulders and their mentalities playing in the games. And it would make some people kind of crack under the pressure, I feel. But I believe within some of these players, especially the European CIS players, I don't really think they believe in that type of stuff, I don't want to believe, but then again, it could just be due to, you know, just some players' personalities, or it could be due to how young and inexperienced they are. Ultimately, I don't know, but I just know that I just need to show up, play my game, if I lose, I lose, if I win, I win. That's the great thing about Counter-Strike, there are so many games to redeem yourself, and there are so many games to just keep proving yourself.

TheSwedishJoker: I heard Damian "daps" Steele saying in an interview with Dust2, that Patsi, despite his accent, is the second voice in the team. How is that going for you guys? Obviously he's not fluent, or maybe as fluent in English as the rest of the guys. Does Yekindar help with Russian/CIS language? How do you think that bodes for the team, knowing that a guy who's talking English with his accent is still the second biggest voice in the team already?

NAF: With Robert [Patsi], he's adjusting really fast, in my opinion. He's doing really well, and when it comes to speaking and communicating in Counter-Strike terms, it's pretty easy for us to understand him and all that. Maybe sometimes, outside of the game when using bigger words in English, he might not understand, or it's a word he's never heard of in English.

But when it comes to Counter-Strike, I'm sure he's played some FPLs and spoken English during games. So, he understands callouts and simple words to make it easy. We all understand him, and we even gave him props yesterday in the G2 game because he had a lot of good communication. He had great comms in pressure rounds, and he wasn't choking up or being afraid to say something. He was always fluent, and we understood what he said. In the end, we all praised him, and daps especially praised him for great communication, which was a huge factor in why we won versus G2.

For us, it hasn't really been too much of an issue. I think maybe it could be a little bit harder with Rainwaker, potentially, because he plays more of a passive spot. So, maybe his voice isn't heard as much as Robert's [Patsi], and he doesn't get to talk as much. So, you could say Patsi's training him more than Alex [Rainwaker]. But at the end of the day, we've always said that we just want to speak English. If it ever comes down to YEKINDAR and Patsi being in a 2vX situation, they can speak Russian if they want, but anytime it comes to any team stuff and another player is involved, they always need to be speaking English. We always encourage them to speak English so they can become more used to it and more comfortable talking in English. Obviously, we're an English-speaking team, so we need them to be as comfortable as possible and as soon as possible.

TheSwedishJoker: Do you think that we are seeing the start of the honeymoon phase Liquid right now? How would you work towards keeping this momentum going for the foreseeable future?

NAF: There's going to be a little bit of a honeymoon aspect to it, but I ultimately don't really believe there's too much of it. In my opinion, we picked up Robert because we believe he has excellent comms and he plays roles that align with our strategies, so he communicates all the time and does really well in that aspect. And Alex is more of a passive player, very smart at clutching and playing slow rounds, which is another reason why we picked him up.

So, there's a little bit of a honeymoon phase, but it's also a matter of confidence. I believe these players are great players and they're going to be even greater in the future.

TheSwedishJoker: You, Osee, daps, and Steve [Jokasteve] are right now the only North Americans in the team. Your headquarters is in the Netherlands, in Utrecht. Do you think that we will see you guys move to Europe permanently sometime in the future? Is that something that you guys have been talking about?

NAF: With picking up a team that's a majority European, we don't really come around and say the word "bootcamping," even though I mentioned it more in the interview before. It's just saying that, "Hey, we're practicing. It's not a bootcamp. This is where we're supposed to be, and we're supposed to be practicing".

But right now, it's still in the early stages of getting things set up for us in Europe, and Liquid is working on finding the right solutions for us to make our stay more comfortable. Especially with the legal process and all that, it takes some time. It's all being worked on, and Liquid's trying their best to make it all happen. It's just more of a wait and see situation right now.

TheSwedishJoker: I can imagine that you guys had more of an American culture before,  being majority American, or North American. Has the culture changed now, getting two Eastern Europeans in Rainwaker and Patsi, and you have YEKINDAR already. Would you say that he's like a bridge between y'all since he's already integrated in the American culture a bit?

NAF: I mean, with the Americans, I think he's just like one of those more unique European people where when you talk with him and hang out with him and socialize and learn more about him, he just seems like another North American person almost to the point. He was always easy to pretty much get along with and even communicating was never an issue. He always had good English, pretty much fluent English. I think he definitely learned a lot about it in school and all the things that he did when he was younger. And I think, just like with Patsi and Rainwaker, they just have, like I said, again, talking about just their personality and their humor, they all easily just blend into our personalities, and it just works out perfectly.

When we looked at these players, we want them to be great players in the server, but also just as humans as well, people that we can get along with. They're all very easy to get along with, and it doesn't really seem like there's that too much of a culture difference. There are some things that are obviously going to be different because they're just separate different cultures, there's going to be things we don't know about each other. But when it comes to Counter-Strike and what we have in common, it's all very easy to go with all of us, so we're all happy with each other, and everything right now is going great.

TheSwedishJoker: For the first time in the organization's history, you are a European roster. Pretty much stationed in Europe more than North America. Do you think that it takes a while to get used to that after being an American roster, an American team for such a long time?

NAF: I think it's different for each person, I would want to say [...] I've spent so much time in Europe already throughout my career already. And then now I'm already spending a lot more time in Europe. And I also have a girlfriend who's European that I've been in a relationship for almost four years now. To me, being in Europe doesn't seem so foreign to me. It just seems like my normal life, to be honest. And I'm already pretty much accustomed to being in Europe, and I'm comfortable being here.

For some different North American players, if they ever come through this journey that they do need to make this happen, it might be a little rough, but I'm very lucky with the situations that I have with Liquid. Having good housing and just customs for us, just to have a facility to practice in, having apartments there and making sure we're all comfortable with everything. And then maybe with some other people or some other organizations, it could be more difficult. That would obviously make things a lot harder, but for me I have a lot more obligations in Europe than I do when I'm at home. For me, it's fine. I'm comfortable being here, and I don't really have any homesickness or any issues like that.

TheSwedishJoker: I know I talked about it with you, on the media day. Now you are the oldest player in the team. Do you feel like you have to step up and, you know, being the dad now with the team and take a little bit more responsibility to make sure that the kids don't run off?

NAF: [Laughter] No, when I looked at that, I was like, oh yeah, this is my first time in my career being the oldest player on the team. So maybe I have to act a little bit more responsibly at times. I always try to make sure people are happy. I joke with Alex and Robert, making sure they're cool and ready. Taking on more of an older figure for them, I guess you could say. But at the end of the day, they're all adults, and they do pretty well.

Luckily, I don't have any players that are like 16 or 17. I know there are a lot of new players coming on the scene, but luckily, they're a little bit older. Robert is turning 20 soon, and Alex is like 22. So, yeah, I already have players that are somewhat more mature now. But I'll obviously do my best to make sure they're happy, joke around with them, and just be there for them like an older brother would be for their younger ones.

TheSwedishJoker: You've been playing in Liquid for so long. You've been loyal to them for about five and a half years now. Did they come to you when they were rebuilding the roster and asking for your input and seeing what you thought of the players that they were looking at?

NAF: Yes, of course. I understand maybe some people make comments thinking like, "Oh, it's just Yekindar making all the choices and changing, and that's why they became a European team." No, that's not the case at all. We all decided that, hey, we want to become a European – like a European, not necessarily a European team. We just wanted to find different players. And that just naturally landed in Europe, and with CIS players and all that. It's just like, if we're looking at the best players, they're not in North America, they're in Europe or the CIS region so we naturally have to look there and check there.

Damien [daps] and YEKINDAR were looking at players, and then they're like, "Hey, yo, NAF, Josh [Osee] look at these players, and you tell us what you think about them," and they watch demos of them, and they're like, "Yo, download this Rainwaker's guy's demo and tell us what you think about him." And then I watched, like, two or three demos of Rainwaker, and I was like, "Alright, this guy is obviously like an up-and-coming player. He's sick, and he already has great understanding, like, he already has an understanding of the game that no North American players have within the Tier 2 scene of North America." So I was just like, "Alright, this is a no-brainer to even just get this guy instead of just looking at North America."

And then for Patsi, like, he already has so much experience when we played against him in Spirit, so [...] we're already confident and he was a player that we kind of needed to kind of fill Elige’s roles. Just being that aggressive player looking for entries and finding holes to exploit. It's not going to work [...] it was just obviously drifting away from North America, but it's like inevitably that has to happen if we want to win. And we just had to look at the right players to win, and that's where they are. They're in Europe, so yeah.

TheSwedishJoker: Speaking about North America. Many people have been vocal about the fact that you've betrayed NA. I know that you and daps already addressed this, so I want to switch it up a little bit. Do you feel that this is what the NA scene needs in order to change for the better and take things more seriously? That kind of a kick in the butt that you're losing the flagship NA team and face of NA to Europe.

NAF: I obviously understand fans that are being a little bit heartbroken about being like in the roster majority being shifted to Europe. But at the end of the day, we do have North American teams. We have three North American players and we have three European CIS players. So it's pretty much broke even in the middle. But with the players obviously we’re considered a European team, obviously with the flag being changed and all that. I understand that's a little disheartening to see, but, it's just like how I mentioned in my interview before. We're here to win, I'm not here to collect money and just lose and just be like, alright, yeah, okay, well, if people just want us to be a North American team, then okay, fine. I'll show up to events and just lose and get paid, and like, okay, if that's what you want, that, like, I don't want that. I want to win, I feel like I still have a chance to be a champion and continue to be a champion in the future. So, that's pretty much what I'm aiming for. But yeah, and also, kind of to make a remark on what Damien [daps] said. Again, it's not Liquid's fault.

Liquid's been an organization that's been a staple for North America for the entire time it's been in the scene since 2015 when I first joined the team, initially, and I don't understand how people can blame Liquid where, like, what about the other organizations that I'm not gonna name, and there's a bunch of them that I could name, but I'm not gonna say their names. Where did their teams go? Why did they abandon their teams? And why are they not here supporting North America when they're in the scene? So and again, it's also, it's up to the TO’s more importantly to figure that out like [...] there was the North American Pro League. We had ECS, we had all these other events in North America and they all just disappeared and obviously ESL in my opinion made a massive huge mistake getting rid of the North American Pro League because in my opinion now there's nothing to play for like what's the point of even being there?

There's nothing there. So It's not up to us and Liquid, the only team that actually gave a shit about North American Counter Strike, to now just be like, "Oh, it's all North, it's all Liquid's fault". No, it's not. It's the damn TOs. And, yeah, maybe other organizations not being involved as well, but mainly, it's about the TOs, and not putting any events or any incentives for any North American players to even play Counter Strike, in my opinion, in North America. There's literally [...] There's really no point. I don't know. I guess people just need to be optimistic for the future in CS2. That ESL or anybody wants to do anything with CS2 and give people a reason to play there. That's ultimately up to them. It's not ultimately up to Liquid..

TheSwedishJoker: You've been open that you'd be wanting to go to a European team in the future. Now, you are still a North American organization, but you're a European team looking to relocate fully to Europe. Do you feel like you're getting the best of both worlds and still being involved with North America in a way, but also kind of being in a European team in a sense?

NAF: Just like I mentioned before, the team is literally split down the middle. If you're including the coach in our management, it's literally split down the middle. If you're also including our management, it's actually still majority North American. But obviously people only look at the players and they look at the flag that's being changed. I don't know what to tell people. I think the community is a bunch of overdramatic and being a bunch of babies and a bunch of pussies about things, in my opinion. But, I mean, that's just the truth. But, people will grow up and they'll kind of learn, hopefully, that we're still very much North American as we are European, so I don't know what to tell you.

TheSwedishJoker: Now, Rainwaker, I've read that he is now the lurker. You used to be the lurker for the team. Has that been a big change for you changing your role? Do you feel like you're more comfortable now when you're not the lurker?

NAF: I guess the thing is [...] I've pretty much experienced playing almost every role in the game. There have definitely been some specific spots that I haven't played on the maps. But when it comes to a lot of roles, it's like when I was playing on OpTic, I was initially an entry fragger when I was playing under daps. But then when Peter "stanislaw" Jarguz came in to be the IGL, he was a lurker. But then since he needed to IGL, he needed to become like a main pack player. And then I became a lurker, and that's how I learned lurking before I learned entrying. And then when I went to Renegades, I played more of this all-star role,  having a lot of freedom to do whatever I want. So I could play roles where I could lurk, I could play roles where I'm in the pack and I'm just baiting, or I'm going first when I feel like I see easy entries that I can get and I have good reads.

So, I've already played literally almost every role in the game, so it's not like anything that feels too foreign to me. If anything, I think it's a new challenge, and it's fun and it's exciting. I mean, I guess I call it a challenge, but to me, it's not really a challenge. It's kind of just like another day of playing just another thing and making you see what I can do with it. And I'm always confident within myself. I always feel like I defy expectations no matter what lineup I'm playing with or any new roles that I get put into. I mean with Rainwaker, he plays more of the passive lurk spots that I mentioned before, and then with me, it's like now I play more also lurk. I also play other lurk roles, but they're more aggressive. So I have options. I can play more passive. I could play more aggressive. I can do what Mareks [YEKINDAR] wants me to do, and I can also ultimately make my decisions. But also, ultimately, my decisions can be made for me by my in-game leaders or people that are calling within the round.

TheSwedishJoker: I have one last question now. You guys are still in the infancy stages. Still trying to figure out your map pool, but if you could just take the reins and decide the map pool for the team, what would you like it to be? Now obviously we don't know what's going to happen with CS2, but let's just assume that CSGO will continue for like 3-4 months. Which maps would you like the team to play?

NAF: I don't really know exactly, because right now it's too early to tell. Obviously we're practicing every map to know. That's like a really hard question, so I don't really know how to answer it too much. I can only say like, me personally [...] all I know is I hate the Anubis B bomb site. I hate playing there. You just get flashed and you get smoked, and then you're instantly, your teammates dead, watching the cave angle, and then you're dead, and then there's nothing you can do and nowhere to hide. So that map kinda sucks in my opinion, I wish I didn't have to play it, but for us right now, it's too early to tell or to say which map we really want to play or which map we would want to just permaban. I don't know, maybe you come back to me with that question in the future, but right now it's too hard to tell, too early to [...] Yeah, this is simply too early to tell. It's hard to say.

Photo cred: Blast Premier and Michal Konkol
@BLASTPremier @KonkolMichal